Curse

Nevin · Aug 01, 2006, 04:09 AM // 04:09

Okay we've all had our hand full of bad experiences from the evil D/Mo's apparently it was pretty vicious for Fame farmers. I wouldn't know, I didn't bother I primarly stuck to RA and TA. From what I witnessed having a D/Mo on your team ment you were getting a Gladiator point. I was over joyed when they were on my team and pissed off beyond belief when I was fighting against them. I'm sure many people feel the same way, but this isn't another whining thread. I want this to be constructive. Obviously everyone is jumping the gun and calling for a nerf. Perhaps a nerf is needed, but how could we fully know? We only had a weekend to play and within that weekend everyone and their mother was exploiting the Dervish. Now I speak from my point of view when I say this, but I didn't see anyone bothering to make a counter build to a Dervish. Maybe this is a call out to Mesmers, Necromancers, and Interrupt Rangers. This although is baised towards RA and TA. When dealing in HA I doubt such a build primarly based around shutdown vs Dervish could be both offensive and still have a backbone which wouldn't crumble under pressure. So this thread is simply about other options, a different mind set for people who are sick of hearing whining or spammed threads about a nerf.

Crimson Ashwood · Aug 01, 2006, 04:16 AM // 04:16

Umm... it was a beta test... of the new professions... pre-release... meaning it's not post release, or final... I mean, you see that right... ? If something's over-powered, it is countered...

Obviously, this was the best opportunity for the development team to decide what works and what doesn't... so you'd see changes for the release. You can call them nerfs, call them balances or call them counters because they all mean the same exact thing when you're talking about a balanced PvP game, such as Guild Wars...

What actually is your thread about?

TadaceAce · Aug 01, 2006, 04:21 AM // 04:21

This has already been completely shut down, there is no counter to D/Mo as is, no hexes, no stripping, no conditions, absolutely nothing.

Former Ruling · Aug 01, 2006, 04:36 AM // 04:36

Their enchantments will hit the chopping block...Their insane...even outside of the "Evil build".

Balthazar's Rage...10e 3/4cast 5recharge...Nearby AoE 104 Armor Ignoring Damage.. ON TOP OF a good side effect...

unholy guardian · Aug 01, 2006, 04:38 AM // 04:38

well... i still don't see why backfire won't work.. i mean if they have to use like 3 enchants wouldn't that be like over 300 damage.. why not put that with energy denial.. like...

energy surge
energy burn
power leak
Signet of Weariness
ether feast
power spike
energy tap

or maybe instead of surge try Power Block cause i guess you could disable most of their stuff at least

i don't know that mesmer build seems fairly capable of taking out a dervish...at least the heavy spell enchant ones.. they can't do anything without energy and can't gain energy if you stop them from using the enchants when you interupt them in the first place. maybe you could even add cry of frustration somehow in there, aoe interupt be nice.

I think you could mess up a spike fairly easly

power leak one dervish so they have no energy left and just burn one more out of like 18 or so energy while doing nice damage. Signet of weariness makes the whole group lose 9 or so energy depending on the level furthering energy denial. Energy tap to take their energy and recover yours while your at it. Be intresting to see if this could work lol. Looks good on paper.

TadaceAce · Aug 01, 2006, 04:46 AM // 04:46

Backfire, they use vital boon and CoP, your backfire is gone and they get healed

, or if they already have enchants up they CoP it all off and start again (keep in mind CoP is a skill not a spell).

Um power block, well they use a combination of mysticism and either earth or wind, so you wouldn't be shutting them down 100%.

You can't energy deny a dervish, sig piety puts energy denial into a waste of energy, even CoP with pious renewal will put an energy denial at bay.

I think your just like me, your pleeding to not nerf them thinking we just havn't found counters, but the fact is, you just can't counter the dervish, he counters your counter with CoP.

unholy guardian · Aug 01, 2006, 04:51 AM // 04:51

blast the CoP spike.. i don't want to change CoP due to the dervish, but i would rather not see the dervish crushed by a nerf so badly. CoP is so powerful bleh

Terra Xin · Aug 01, 2006, 05:17 AM // 05:17

Even a Mesmer's Fast Casting isn't quick enough to complete a chain of hexes before the Dervish uses CoP, making the mesmer's blackout useless. It's possible to focus fire on one dervish, by going hex heavy and blood spiking, but it takes more of an effort to take a dervish down than any other class. It's like the Boon prot with muscle.

Hidden in the Mist · Aug 01, 2006, 05:22 AM // 05:22

Diversion, I had this hex cast upon me when I was a Dervish bomber. I tried to remove it with CoP when I had an enchantment on me and it get an additional 59 seconds of recharge.

Blackout is another counter to Dervishes as they can't CoP or cast enchantments, only kite or attack.

Shadow Shroud, they can't cast any spells.

Focus fire, stack degen and regular attacks on a Dervish and they will bound to fall eventually.

twicky_kid · Aug 01, 2006, 05:58 AM // 05:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hidden in the Mist

Diversion, I had this hex cast upon me when I was a Dervish bomber. I tried to remove it with CoP when I had an enchantment on me and it get an additional 59 seconds of recharge.

Blackout is another counter to Dervishes as they can't CoP or cast enchantments, only kite or attack.

Shadow Shroud, they can't cast any spells.

Focus fire, stack degen and regular attacks on a Dervish and they will bound to fall eventually.

Diversion works on dumb dervishs. Just wait the 6 seconds

You don't want to get close enough to a dervish to use BO

Shadow shroud only stops targeting enchantments from being cast. Dervish aoe enchantments don't target. In fact about 90% of their enchants don't target.

Degen is made of conditions and hexes which CoP completely owns. Change CoP to Lose 1...8 enchantments (divine favor) for each enchantment lost you ........

That would stop the dervishes abuse of CoP and still make CoP usable for monks.

Kruzing Low · Aug 01, 2006, 06:08 AM // 06:08

blackout mesmers, choking gas rangers, and stun strike paragons
remember all their attacks are enchantment spells; choking gas turns tears them up since they cant do any damage, and since they have to be close to you to do damage, not interrupting a spell of theirs wasnt ever a problem
someone else already mentioned the blackout mesmer; those work too
paragons with their stun strike can mess you up too if they use it right after you use CoP
i made a d/mo during the event, and those 3 were the only builds that i had trouble with
still, those 3 are the most effective, but anyone who can run or a team that can spread out and deal damage are still counters to them
its just like a toucher; keep them away from you and theyre as worthless as stripping an illusionary weaponrist

glountz · Aug 01, 2006, 06:20 AM // 06:20

I would rather increase CoP's casting time to 2 seconds, making it open to interrupt and difficult to use under heavy pressure. As it is CoP is instacast, and there is nothing excepted diversion to counter it. Even diversion, on a skilled player, won't work, unless diversion hit exactly the moment before the monk/dervish uses CoP.
With a a 2 seconds casting time, CoP becomes interruptible. And not so well interruptible, because as a skill, most interrupts won't work, and casting time lenghtening hexes or conditions (like Arcane Conundrum or Dazed) won't work either.

fiery · Aug 01, 2006, 06:24 AM // 06:24

Less nerfing a low cooldown, high aoe damage? Only thing to do is nerf it.

twicky_kid · Aug 01, 2006, 06:24 AM // 06:24

Why would you want to make CoP a 2 second cast. If you did that it would be a worthless skill. The problem is not the casting or being able to interrupt it. The problem is its removes all enchantments giving a 150+ heal 28+ energy and removing 3-4 conditions at the same time.

Change the remove all enchantments to removing 1.....8 and link that to divine favor problem is solved.

I would reduce the dmg on the aoe holy dmg enchants to 80 max. Then increase the recharge to 12-15.

bam23 · Aug 01, 2006, 06:33 AM // 06:33

2 second CoP is ridiculous.

audioaxes · Aug 01, 2006, 06:52 AM // 06:52

quit fooling yourselves its simply overpowered and is going to need some significant rehauling

TheMadKingGeorge · Aug 01, 2006, 06:59 AM // 06:59

well lets un nerf everything else if your not gonna nerf d/mo's or r/p's

bring foc back down to 10 aoe back down to zero make dual orders effective again.

bring back fast cast air spike .. i dont know why

the list will go on nerf it or un nerf everything

i vote for nerf

Magnus_1 · Aug 01, 2006, 07:11 AM // 07:11

Perhaps we should wait to see what skills they will be introducing for other classes before we decide we need to nerf Dervishes. We're getting plenty of new skills in the next expansion, so maybe there will be a few designed specifically for countering Dervishes.

zakaria · Aug 01, 2006, 07:20 AM // 07:20

Nerfing dervish is invitable but i reckon they will be worse than ele or sin that make anyone play with it will be laugh about.

TheMadKingGeorge · Aug 01, 2006, 07:25 AM // 07:25

just read somehting yuna just wrote

leave dervishes as they are to piss off the whiners looks like MATH has found there new iway